Below is the summary of recent insurance related events, which followed the aborted purchase of a mini just over a week ago; in common with other blogs, the most recent entry is at the top.
10 March 2007
Getting the details right on policies
Having a frustrating time with my other Adrian Flux policy, in that when the proposal form came it said that I was going to park the Ford Prefect on my drive, but I remembered telling them that I don't have one. So I rang up and clarified the point and of course they are going to increase the premium. They said they'd listen to the tapes to check whether I had been sold the policy mistakenly, saying that if I had, they'd bear the extra cost. She said she'd call back in half an hour, but didn't. I called again a few hours on and was told that they can't guarantee when they will call.So I asked them to pass on to the "listener" the fact that there had been severeal phone calls (which I tried to list) because I had been getting quotes for two cars, though I was talking to the same adviser each time.Finally, today, something like three days later I got a call, but nobody had listened to the tapes! They just called with a quote!I had categorically got the guy selling me the policies to confirm that neither car needed extra security, both would be on the road and clarified that I didn't have a drive and was really surprised when he said I was getting all that for the premium quoted.I am to be called again on Monday. I have far more confidence in this being sorted out now that I have contact with the lady who is dealing with my other policy.
Posted by Tinworm at 10:17
10 March 2007
Getting the details right on policies
Having a frustrating time with my other Adrian Flux policy, in that when the proposal form came it said that I was going to park the Ford Prefect on my drive, but I remembered telling them that I don't have one. So I rang up and clarified the point and of course they are going to increase the premium. They said they'd listen to the tapes to check whether I had been sold the policy mistakenly, saying that if I had, they'd bear the extra cost. She said she'd call back in half an hour, but didn't. I called again a few hours on and was told that they can't guarantee when they will call.So I asked them to pass on to the "listener" the fact that there had been severeal phone calls (which I tried to list) because I had been getting quotes for two cars, though I was talking to the same adviser each time.Finally, today, something like three days later I got a call, but nobody had listened to the tapes! They just called with a quote!I had categorically got the guy selling me the policies to confirm that neither car needed extra security, both would be on the road and clarified that I didn't have a drive and was really surprised when he said I was getting all that for the premium quoted.I am to be called again on Monday. I have far more confidence in this being sorted out now that I have contact with the lady who is dealing with my other policy.
Posted by Tinworm at 10:17
09 March 2007
Adrian Flux came through for me in the end!
Wow, things move quickly in cyberspace! I have just had a brief and pleasant exchange with a customer services person from Adrian Flux (via tinworm@hotmail.co.uk) and they agree that the situation called for the human touch. Well this particular lady really has it and I am grateful to her. She is arranging for me to get a FULL refund.Thanks very much, Adrian Flux.
Posted by Tinworm at 17:33
Adrian Flux reads my blog too!
I have just heard from someone at Adrian Flux, offering to help me resolve my situation ;) -Who knew that blogs could be so powerful? It is quite a revelation. I hope they can help because I just heard from their office (via email; remember that Tinworm is anonymous, so they won't have made the connection) that I am to get about half my money back, now that the seller has confirmed that the sale was aborted.As I said to my Adrian Flux correspondent in my reply email, this partial refund may be legal (though it really shouldn't be) but it can't be good for business. She said that they value enthusiasts, and you'd hope that as classic insurers they would, but if that is so, how can they justify keeping more than half my premium, when they recognise that there is no car to insure? It may be legal, but it isn't fair.And as I say, it doesn't make good business sense, especially as I shall shortly be looking for classic car insurance.As to that, I am looking at another Mk1 on Monday. I know the man who services it and have read his servicing records for the last seven years. This one looks good....and what's more I am hopeful of getting it for less than the price of the aborted mini.I wonder who I shall get to insure it? Any suggestions?I don't want to have this run-around every year. I want to be in a position to just know I am with a good outfit, who will look after me and keep premiums down...someone I can renew every year without bother. I'd be very interested to know who other classic motorists use.
Posted by Tinworm at 16:37
Anyway.....back to the shed
So anyway, back to the workshop for me this Saturday to do some more welding and then on Sunday I am visiting a chap who lives 40 miles away who has a J type and who brought a pair of leafsprings up for me from Truman's on his last visit. My girlfriend is coming too because she has never seen a complete J before. I am that rare kind of man whose lover is 100% supportive of his hobby. I am off to bed now with a smile on my face for that.
Posted by Tinworm at 00:41
Adrian Flux came through for me in the end!
Wow, things move quickly in cyberspace! I have just had a brief and pleasant exchange with a customer services person from Adrian Flux (via tinworm@hotmail.co.uk) and they agree that the situation called for the human touch. Well this particular lady really has it and I am grateful to her. She is arranging for me to get a FULL refund.Thanks very much, Adrian Flux.
Posted by Tinworm at 17:33
Adrian Flux reads my blog too!
I have just heard from someone at Adrian Flux, offering to help me resolve my situation ;) -Who knew that blogs could be so powerful? It is quite a revelation. I hope they can help because I just heard from their office (via email; remember that Tinworm is anonymous, so they won't have made the connection) that I am to get about half my money back, now that the seller has confirmed that the sale was aborted.As I said to my Adrian Flux correspondent in my reply email, this partial refund may be legal (though it really shouldn't be) but it can't be good for business. She said that they value enthusiasts, and you'd hope that as classic insurers they would, but if that is so, how can they justify keeping more than half my premium, when they recognise that there is no car to insure? It may be legal, but it isn't fair.And as I say, it doesn't make good business sense, especially as I shall shortly be looking for classic car insurance.As to that, I am looking at another Mk1 on Monday. I know the man who services it and have read his servicing records for the last seven years. This one looks good....and what's more I am hopeful of getting it for less than the price of the aborted mini.I wonder who I shall get to insure it? Any suggestions?I don't want to have this run-around every year. I want to be in a position to just know I am with a good outfit, who will look after me and keep premiums down...someone I can renew every year without bother. I'd be very interested to know who other classic motorists use.
Posted by Tinworm at 16:37
Anyway.....back to the shed
So anyway, back to the workshop for me this Saturday to do some more welding and then on Sunday I am visiting a chap who lives 40 miles away who has a J type and who brought a pair of leafsprings up for me from Truman's on his last visit. My girlfriend is coming too because she has never seen a complete J before. I am that rare kind of man whose lover is 100% supportive of his hobby. I am off to bed now with a smile on my face for that.
Posted by Tinworm at 00:41
08 March 2007
Arian Flux's "Traditional Values" and Chaucer's attitude to classic motorists
Still nothing received in the post from the mini seller, despite his assurances that he sent the letter confirming the aborted sale two days ago. I need this to satisfy Adrian Flux and Chaucer Insurance that the sale did not go through, as these are the only circumstances under which a refund may be possible. Seems odd that it hasn't arrived.He says he will Fax it, so Adrian Flux should be looking out for it tomorrow. Fingers crossed. I reckon if Adrian Flux don't come through for me on this one, I shall have to give Norwich Union a go next time.Incidentally, the motto under Adrian Flux's logo says, "Modern approach, traditional values". Of course, ultimately Adrian Flux isn't responsible for Chaucer's policy, but I do feel that they could have been rather less perfunctory in their response to my situation (especially as I had to make a phone call the same day about a number of errors they had made on a another classic policy). I suppose it is naive of me, but you hope that when companies make a particular point of stressing their "traditional values" they'd count for more.How Chaucer get away with threatening to cancel a days'-old policy without giving a refund of a year's premium I can't imagine. Adrian Flux say that it is because it is a Classic policy. Well, that suggests to me that classic motorists are getting a pretty raw deal. Why should those of us who insure classics be treated more shoddily than everyone else?
Posted by Tinworm at 17:51
Arian Flux's "Traditional Values" and Chaucer's attitude to classic motorists
Still nothing received in the post from the mini seller, despite his assurances that he sent the letter confirming the aborted sale two days ago. I need this to satisfy Adrian Flux and Chaucer Insurance that the sale did not go through, as these are the only circumstances under which a refund may be possible. Seems odd that it hasn't arrived.He says he will Fax it, so Adrian Flux should be looking out for it tomorrow. Fingers crossed. I reckon if Adrian Flux don't come through for me on this one, I shall have to give Norwich Union a go next time.Incidentally, the motto under Adrian Flux's logo says, "Modern approach, traditional values". Of course, ultimately Adrian Flux isn't responsible for Chaucer's policy, but I do feel that they could have been rather less perfunctory in their response to my situation (especially as I had to make a phone call the same day about a number of errors they had made on a another classic policy). I suppose it is naive of me, but you hope that when companies make a particular point of stressing their "traditional values" they'd count for more.How Chaucer get away with threatening to cancel a days'-old policy without giving a refund of a year's premium I can't imagine. Adrian Flux say that it is because it is a Classic policy. Well, that suggests to me that classic motorists are getting a pretty raw deal. Why should those of us who insure classics be treated more shoddily than everyone else?
Posted by Tinworm at 17:51
07 March 2007
Norwich Union read my blog!
Well here's a turn-up, someone in the executive office at Norwich Union has been reading this blog and has offered to help in getting to the bottom of why I didn't get offered the chance of their 7 day free insurance, which is a feature of eBay motor sales. Had I had that free offer, there is a very good chance I wouldn't be in my present mess, lumbered with a useless, year-long insurance policy, but with no car and with the prospect of the insurance company cancelling the policy in the next week but refusing a refund.I am not sure there is anything that NU can do to help with my current situation, but I do know this, I wish I was with the kind of insurer that had the initiative NU has in contacting me and offering to help, rather than being stuck with a broker which appears to just shrug its shoulders, laughing all the way to the bank.There may be some hope though, even on that front. My broker, Adrian Flux, (eventually) suggested that if I could get a letter from the seller of the mini confirming that I had not bought it, I "might" get a refund. At the time I didn't hold out much hope of that kind of cooperation because aborting the sale will not have made me popular and there have been some acrimonious exchanges between us since. But the seller is cooperating, as it happens, in return for me signing off on their request for the refund of ebay final value fees. It is a compromise because it means that I won't get to leave candid feedback, but at least this way I don't lose quite so much.Presumably Norwich Union have some kind of internet sniffer dog that seeks out blog references to its name? I'd prefer to think that the person who contacted me is a fellow enthusiast and will share my feelings about fair deals for classic motorists, but whatever their feelings, at least they are offering to help, which is more than my own insurer is offering to do.So, thanks Norwich Union.
Norwich Union read my blog!
Well here's a turn-up, someone in the executive office at Norwich Union has been reading this blog and has offered to help in getting to the bottom of why I didn't get offered the chance of their 7 day free insurance, which is a feature of eBay motor sales. Had I had that free offer, there is a very good chance I wouldn't be in my present mess, lumbered with a useless, year-long insurance policy, but with no car and with the prospect of the insurance company cancelling the policy in the next week but refusing a refund.I am not sure there is anything that NU can do to help with my current situation, but I do know this, I wish I was with the kind of insurer that had the initiative NU has in contacting me and offering to help, rather than being stuck with a broker which appears to just shrug its shoulders, laughing all the way to the bank.There may be some hope though, even on that front. My broker, Adrian Flux, (eventually) suggested that if I could get a letter from the seller of the mini confirming that I had not bought it, I "might" get a refund. At the time I didn't hold out much hope of that kind of cooperation because aborting the sale will not have made me popular and there have been some acrimonious exchanges between us since. But the seller is cooperating, as it happens, in return for me signing off on their request for the refund of ebay final value fees. It is a compromise because it means that I won't get to leave candid feedback, but at least this way I don't lose quite so much.Presumably Norwich Union have some kind of internet sniffer dog that seeks out blog references to its name? I'd prefer to think that the person who contacted me is a fellow enthusiast and will share my feelings about fair deals for classic motorists, but whatever their feelings, at least they are offering to help, which is more than my own insurer is offering to do.So, thanks Norwich Union.
05 March 2007
Classic Insurance - how can they cancel a 3 day-old policy and refuse a refund?
I must be careful not to let this blog go off course, with all this talk of minis, but I haven't been in my workshop today because I have been dealing with the consequences of the aborted mini purchase. Did you know that a Classic car insurer (or mine, Chaucer Insurance, at least) can refuse to give you any money back, even if you cancel a policy within the 14 day cool-off period? How can that be legal? They will allow me to transfer it on to another car but only if I do so within the next ten days.I told my broker/insurance arranger (Adrian Flux) that I did not buy the car after all because of irregularities in the seller's V5c, and they said there could be no refund, so I asked if they would freeze the policy until I could get another car. They said no, so I said, ok, so let the policy run and I will get another car and transfer it onto the policy and just have as much of the year as is left. No, they can't do that either.They say they will allow another car to be put on the policy within 14 days of me taking it out, but if I don't manage it in this timeframe, they will just cancel the policy and keep my money. How the hell can that be legal? How can they take a year's insurance money, when it is they who have seen to it that I don't get a year's cover.The last few days are enough to send anyone down to his shed never to reappear! You have to be insured to take a car away, when you buy it, but classic insurers won't give you just a few days, a week, a few months, or whatever to enable you to do this...they insist on making it a year. So what hope do you have if the sale falls through?Incidentally, the promised Norwich Union free week's insurance on ebay came to nothing. I never received the promised reference code from ebay and when I wrote them they said they are just a sale venue and I should take it up with the vendor. Holy shit, will nobody act decently these days?
Posted by Tinworm at 11:05
Classic Insurance - how can they cancel a 3 day-old policy and refuse a refund?
I must be careful not to let this blog go off course, with all this talk of minis, but I haven't been in my workshop today because I have been dealing with the consequences of the aborted mini purchase. Did you know that a Classic car insurer (or mine, Chaucer Insurance, at least) can refuse to give you any money back, even if you cancel a policy within the 14 day cool-off period? How can that be legal? They will allow me to transfer it on to another car but only if I do so within the next ten days.I told my broker/insurance arranger (Adrian Flux) that I did not buy the car after all because of irregularities in the seller's V5c, and they said there could be no refund, so I asked if they would freeze the policy until I could get another car. They said no, so I said, ok, so let the policy run and I will get another car and transfer it onto the policy and just have as much of the year as is left. No, they can't do that either.They say they will allow another car to be put on the policy within 14 days of me taking it out, but if I don't manage it in this timeframe, they will just cancel the policy and keep my money. How the hell can that be legal? How can they take a year's insurance money, when it is they who have seen to it that I don't get a year's cover.The last few days are enough to send anyone down to his shed never to reappear! You have to be insured to take a car away, when you buy it, but classic insurers won't give you just a few days, a week, a few months, or whatever to enable you to do this...they insist on making it a year. So what hope do you have if the sale falls through?Incidentally, the promised Norwich Union free week's insurance on ebay came to nothing. I never received the promised reference code from ebay and when I wrote them they said they are just a sale venue and I should take it up with the vendor. Holy shit, will nobody act decently these days?
Posted by Tinworm at 11:05
04 March 2007
Buyer Beware!
With a massive wad of cash in a brown envelope stashed in my inside pocket, I drove with my girlfriend 150 miles south to buy a MK1 mini from a classic car dealership in Hampshire, having won their auction on ebay. We were very excited and expectant as my girlfriend owned one of these when they were new and it has been her dream to get another. In the photos it looked a very pretty little car. The only downer in the description had been that the rear bumper was a bit tarnished; leaving the suggestion that no other faults merited a mention. We were particularly excited because not only was it meant to be "original" but it had had no welding done on it.
Sadly, it wasn't to be and I feel angry....but also relieved not to have handed over all that money. The car had, they said, had "one owner from new" and on the phone they had said it was in very good condition and had never been welded. In reality the interior was shabby, the engine bay was an uncared-for mess and when we drove it, the speedo seemed inaccurate.....until it dawned on us that it wasn't showing mph but Kmph; it had been an export. I rooted around under the carpet and found a $2 Australian coin (1988)....so there was every chance it had had numerous owners in Australia -rather than the ONE claimed, which explained its shabby interior and engine.....(later my girlfriend told me she had seen the year 2006 on the V5c and though I hadn't noticed this, I wonder now if that is when it was registered over here). You can't claim that because a car has only had one owner in the UK, it has had one owner from new....not if it has been registered for 42 years abroad....and if the owner isn't there to answer for it.
On the good side, the shell was solid....the Australian climate had seen to that. But a friend has since told me that the speedo cluster will be a 1970s one because Australia had mph until then. So even that won't be Mk1.
We weighed things up and thought that the lack of welding probably justified the price even if the car was a lot shabbier than described, so we decided to go for it. But when I was handed the V5c, the numbers raised red flags. The car was not registed to the dealership, but still in the name of the previous owner and the registration was non-transferable. The VIN plate was not where it should have been on the front panel but screwed (not riveted) to the radiator case, suggesting that the front panel had been repaired or even replaced (or even, god forbid) that this wasn't the original shell at all but had had a VIN number transplant....and this might explain its lack of welding!Then we discovered that the engine number did not match the V5c. I rang my mini expert (a close friend who has restored many minis professionally) and he told me from the number that the engine was not from a Mk1 at all. He said I could buy the car and re-register the engine, but the car wouldn't be a kosher Mk1 and I then felt the discrepancy in the document gave reason to doubt any other claims about the car.
The MOT had the wrong mileage .....wrong by 50,000 miles! (And we were surprised that the MOT garage had not spotted the fact that the engine number was wrong; aren't they supposed to check the numbers? I know mine does).... We asked the dealer to get the documents changed and said that if the documents were in order, we would still come back and buy the car, but he said that he didn't want it put in his name because it wouldn't then be a "one previous owner" car. We said that didn't matter now because we were buying the car as it was ....but he still wouldn't have it in his name.....and that was the final straw. Something was very wrong here.We asked for our deposit back and walked away.
Inevitably, all the way back (another 150 miles) we analysed the deal and tried to work out whether the garage had just missed the points that we, as amateurs, discovered or whether they had tried to mislead us. We concluded that as specialists in classic cars they couldn't reasonably claim, as they did, that they knew nothing at all about minis, that they hadn't realised the engine and documents were wrong or that the passenger seat was not bolted down, that the speedo was in kilometers, that the paintwork was not orange-peeling but bubbling, that the left seatbelt didn't work, that the pram latches were loose, that the wipers were upside-down and scratching the windscreen, that part of the moustache grille was missing, that the spare tyre was bald, that the passenger door latch was broken and the door did not close properly and that all the internal door furniture had been replaced with later types, that the carpet was almost non-existent, that the roof had a dent the size of my hand, etc etc.In short, this was barely a Mk1 and certainly in very far from good condition.
I wouldn't have minded buying a shabby mini and doing it up if they had been straight about things from the start but when you are paying top dollar you expect it to be in very much better condition. My expert tells me that a car of this vintage can be purchased in much better condition with a kosher history for about £500 less than this Mk1's reserve. Fortunately, he thinks he knows of one coming up....and as I have complete trust and confidence in him, I know I won't be ripped off.
(The more I think about it, their attitude towards us was very odd. Nobody came over to show us over the car. I had to keep dragging them over and then they'd disappear again. They didn't seem to really care less about us. They each said that the other one was "Bradley" and that the other was the one who knew the car. They wouldn't put the car on their ramp to prove the underside was solid. They didn't put up a fight when I asked for the deposit back, hadn't been willing to haggle when I had pointed out the faults and discrepancies, etc. Maybe some mug had made them a better offer?)
